Holiday Boundaries - Protecting Peace for You and Your Kids
The holidays can bring warmth and joy - but also pressure, guilt, and emotional overload.
In this episode, Elizabeth sits down with Brooke Ervin, owner of Apricus Counseling Licensed Professional Clinical Counselor and Certified Integrative Mental Health Professional, to talk about what happens to our bodies when we overextend emotionally - and how healthy boundaries can protect both our peace and our physical health.
They unpack how chronic stress around family, travel, and expectations can disrupt the nervous system, immune balance, and even children’s emotional regulation. Then, they share practical, compassionate ways to simplify, say no, and model emotional safety this season - with confidence!
If you’ve ever left the holidays feeling drained, resentful, or overstimulated, this conversation will help you reimagine what “making it magical” really means - for your whole family’s well-being.
Find Guest, Brooke Ervin, LPCC-S, CIMHP at:
Website: https://www.apricuscounseling.org
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/apricuscounseling
Please note that transcripts may contain minor errors or inaccuracies. We hope you enjoy reading them and find them helpful.
Elizabeth Mae (0:0.806)
Welcome back to Hey, You're Gonna Be Okay. This week we were talking about holiday boundaries and boundaries in general. ⁓ I have Brooke Irvin here with me. She's a licensed therapist who works primarily with women, adolescents, teens, childrens in private practice. Before that she worked in a hospital residential settings as a family advocate for victims of abuse. So when we think about boundaries, Brooke's definitely seen spaces that need boundaries. She specializes in working with clients who have had ⁓
significant physical, verbal, emotional trauma, even abuse, and those seeking more of an integrative approach. has a practice here in Louisville, Kentucky ⁓ with many providers who we've had many clients have really great experiences. So I'm really excited to get to share her with you guys today for us to discuss boundaries and how boundaries impact our health ⁓ as we approach the holiday season. So thanks for joining me,
Brooke Ervin (0:53.597)
Thanks for having me.
Elizabeth Mae (0:54.720)
Yeah, so we're definitely just going to hop right into it. I think the big thing that we see all the time in care is that ⁓ emotional seasons bring about more health shifting in people sometimes and holidays are totally that. ⁓ And I just really want to be able to talk about practicals of how ⁓ our listeners can make the holidays emotionally better, easier, more, I don't know, loving and productive because we
go in front of the emotional things that will come because they totally will come. ⁓ So I'm kind of curious, like, do you see the same, like, stuff impacting people in emotional mental health kind of ways?
Brooke Ervin (1:35.569)
Yeah, absolutely. ⁓ I see ⁓ everything from ⁓ people getting more sick to people just coming in depleted or coming in, I was so stressed, I couldn't handle this, it was too much, why do I do this to myself? Yeah, we see that.
Elizabeth Mae (1:54.702)
Yeah, I think I forget sometimes too about the ⁓ overdoing mom and the overdoing holiday provider. I think that's a big part of it. You know, there's always like the tense family situations, but the just go, go, go nature of it paired with sugar season also ⁓ can be a lot. So why do you feel like people feel emotionally and physically drained after the holidays? like just practically like let's sometimes we're not aware, right? We go through the motions and we're not aware of the things that are happening.
that get us to that emotionally fried place. But let's just kind of talk about practicals of what gets people to that drain space. ⁓
Brooke Ervin (2:30.430)
I mean, I think it can be, you know, they have their childhood memories that it was so magical and I have to recreate that for somebody and I have to do the same. And then sometimes they have the comparison like, oh, so and so is doing all of these activities and these things and spending this money and going to this place. And they then forget that.
that's not what means the most to our families, right? ⁓ That that's not what means the most to our kids or even to our loved ones. Would they rather have be running a thousand miles an hour ⁓ and stressed and irritable and everybody's cranky or would they rather have your presence and your focus and be within your bandwidth and get the best version of you?
Elizabeth Mae (3:12.654)
Mm, mm, get the best version of you. I think that's a really notable, I don't know, just think about my kids experiencing me and that really is kind of, should be the goal of the holiday season is that we all get to enjoy each other in our best space and space. But what about hidden stressors that families don't realize they're navigating? Travel used to be a big one for me at holidays. A lot of times they're like things other family members expect of us, but what are those things that pop up for people that bring on all the emotions and the...
dreaming.
Brooke Ervin (3:45.023)
⁓ I think about like sometimes there's the expectation that someone else is going to say, we should go do this. And then I feel the pressure that I have to do what they want to do, but that's not good for me. know, we're going to make cookies and, know, with grandma or auntie or somebody, or we're going to do this big activity. And that actually feels really stressful. Or that actually feels like, or we're going to organize the whole family into 8 a.m. photos when there's a whole bunch of little kids coming around and let's all be dressed and ready to go. Or like,
Elizabeth Mae (3:56.994)
Hmm.
Elizabeth Mae (4:5.443)
Mm.
Brooke Ervin (4:14.990)
whatever someone else puts on you, then you're like, I ⁓ don't want to do this. ⁓ And sometimes, ⁓ sometimes we meet in the middle, we say, that's really the only thing we can do, know, is the ridiculous 8 a.m. photos. And sometimes we say like, I love you and I can't. And it's finding that balance because we are willing to sacrifice our ⁓ desires or our wants or our ideal for others. ⁓ But that doesn't mean that we sacrifice to the point of depletion or
Elizabeth Mae (4:19.297)
Yeah.
Brooke Ervin (4:41.510)
sacrifice to point that it's like, know, yes, do I travel? Sure, do I travel for Thanksgiving and every family member across the country at Christmas and then again on New Year's and I have to show up for everyone else or can I set some boundaries and say I can do this but I can't do that?
Elizabeth Mae (4:54.094)
So when people feel that tug of like, we're expected to do this, but I'm not sure I really want to do it. That's where the boundary comes in, where we need to like identify how we feel and then navigate that.
Brooke Ervin (5:8.498)
Yeah, ⁓ and I think it's okay, like I said, yeah, we just have to figure out like, where am I willing and able to be uncomfortable? You know, like I said, it's, my family hasn't been together in three years and it's our one chance to get pictures and it's at my kids nap time, but like I can do this, I can rally for one thing ⁓ versus like, hey, we're keeping the kids up late every single night and ⁓ we're waking up early and there everyone's at a routine and I'm miserable or maybe it's not even kids, maybe it's, hey, I'm not a night.
Elizabeth Mae (5:16.122)
Mm-hmm.
Brooke Ervin (5:38.239)
person and I want to go to bed because I'm going to get up in the morning and I sleep well but feeling like I have to do this for somebody else or whatever. mean I think people have so many different traditions or routines that they end up giving in to and not finding the balance of like when to give in and when to just say hey I love you and that's not gonna work for me.
Elizabeth Mae (6:1.400)
I think we see with like our moms, especially who are in care and healing, whether they're in care for themselves or they're in care for their kids, is that they are doing a lot of things for other people, but then that brings up like secondary emotions too. And then everything's going so fast that there's like suppression and then mom tanks and, or mom's liver health struggles, at least in our world, like resentment and anger kind of building up quietly because ⁓ she's making everything happen for everybody, but she's really not saying like,
One, this is too much for me. Or two, I don't want to do that. Or three, like, no one wants to do that. Because that happens sometimes, too, where it's like, OK, as moms, we're rallying for a family picture or whatever. But really, no one wants to do it. And then it's OK. Like, so many times in care, we have conversations like, what if you just didn't do it? Like, what if you didn't do it at all? Or like, even giving yourself permission to consider that.
Brooke Ervin (6:52.338)
Mm-hmm.
Elizabeth Mae (6:57.880)
But then also there's the in-between boundaries, which is what we're talking about. ⁓
Brooke Ervin (7:2.322)
Yay. ⁓
Elizabeth Mae (7:3.928)
Which I guess not doing it is boundary, but it's on the more extreme end. But I think too, what about kids and how they absorb ⁓ or experience ⁓ the tension ⁓ or all of the emotional stuff? Like, do you see that being a stressor, like our kids are so stressed these days from lots of different things, but do you see that something in teens, I would imagine too, popping up for them?
Brooke Ervin (7:28.446)
Yeah, mean, think kids feel all the tension. They hear the whispers or the tones or the like, I'm talk to you in the other room. They engage all of that, experience it. They also know when mom's more agitated because she's trying to provide a filter or she's trying to set a boundary or she doesn't want to go do the thing and she's trying to rally and put on a happy face but everyone in the room knows she's not happy.
Elizabeth Mae (7:55.374)
Mm.
Brooke Ervin (7:58.662)
you know, ⁓ mom lets everybody stay up late to do whatever thing and then she's frustrated getting them all to bed or like, I just, yeah, they pick up on all of that. ⁓ I also think they pick up on just like lots of time ⁓ out of routine that is not helpful for a lot of kids. Like, ⁓ we're gonna go travel and be out of routine and back and forth between all these things for like a week and a half. ⁓ And ⁓ my sleep isn't normal or I'm not eating the same things and just they get.
Elizabeth Mae (8:13.998)
Mmm. ⁓
Brooke Ervin (8:26.781)
caught up in all of that and they don't feel regulated as well. So I think it's like both end, they don't feel regulated in themselves and then they also feel the tension and we're not hiding it as well as we think we are.
Elizabeth Mae (8:38.990)
So both like the adults, I mean, adults co-regulate, we talk about co-regulation, like our emotions do ⁓ reflect or interact with other people, right? Like we can be calmed by another person that's kind of like basis of co-regulation, but also routines are regulating. They're regulating for adults, but they're super regulating for kids. Like that's their little safe space. And when we throw them out of that and then we add the adult tension in, it's like chaotic. And little bodies can only handle so much chaotic. ⁓
⁓ which is interesting, but let's get to the basic of like, what is the boundary? I feel like a lot of times when we talk, even just as friends, have perfect little concise, like lovely ways to think about it or to explain it. But what is a boundary and maybe what is not a boundary because 2025 we ⁓ be emotional, helping all over the place. And I don't know that it's always ⁓ fantastic. ⁓
Brooke Ervin (9:34.181)
Yeah, ⁓ yeah, so I like starting with what is not a boundary. A boundary is not, I'm gonna make you do. Like if you don't do, or if you do this, I'm gonna make you do. ⁓ That's controlling others, that's not a boundary. ⁓ A boundary is, ⁓ if this line is crossed, this is the expected outcome or reaction from me.
Elizabeth Mae (9:54.253)
gonna do.
Brooke Ervin (9:55.646)
I'm gonna do. So when my kids were little and I reached my limit, there was a time, because my kids are all two years apart and they were all really little and my husband was done with work for the day and the kids were going crazy and I had asked multiple times for whatever situation to stop. Like, please stop, please stop, please stop. And I felt myself getting frustrated and I said, if you don't stop, I'm going to time out.
Elizabeth Mae (10:24.482)
Mm.
Brooke Ervin (10:25.105)
I'm going. And so ⁓ it didn't stop. ⁓ And so I looked at my husband and I said, and I looked at my kids, I was like, you are safe, you are okay, I'm going outside. Do not follow me. Like I am going away from you. ⁓ And so my goal was not, obviously it was not to like control them. Like I had to tell them not to follow me because they were children and that I needed my husband to know like you're keeping them here, I'm going away from them. My goal was ⁓ I need to get away to regulate myself. So my boundary was
I have reached my limit and this is all I can do. And if not, you will find a reaction out of me that I don't want. I don't want to treat you guys that way. I don't want to do that. So like a boundary is my expected outcome. So at the holidays that might look like.
If ⁓ you feed my children the thing that I don't want you to feed them that I've asked them to not have and you're like going behind my back and sneaking something, then I'm not going to trust you to be alone with them. And so you won't be alone with them. Like this is the expected outcome from me. ⁓
Elizabeth Mae (11:23.490)
Mm. ⁓ Mm.
Brooke Ervin (11:31.471)
Yeah, I mean, I think that's kind of.
Elizabeth Mae (11:33.282)
family tension in front of children, like bringing in the co-regulation, the adult emotions thing. I feel like that's a situation that a lot of times our families like raise their kids one particular way. You go into a family situation where emotional health is different than your own home's emotional health. And then your kids are kind of subjected to ⁓ ick or adult things. like, what could a boundary look like in that circumstance?
Brooke Ervin (11:59.070)
⁓ I mean, I think it could look like you pulling your family away and going and having a private conversation like, we're, yeah, we saw this or we heard this and that's not how we prefer to handle it. And ⁓ without trashing or bashing the other person to kind of pull your people in and say like, we're gonna go on a walk and talk about this or we're gonna step away for this situation and, ⁓ you know. ⁓
Elizabeth Mae (12:6.574)
Mm.
Brooke Ervin (12:25.469)
Yeah, that was handled in a way that we don't love and this is why we don't think it's loving or we don't think it's healthy or like we don't think it's good for your body. Hey, you know, I understand that your cousins are doing XYZ and that might not be a good fit for us because we understand. And so like being able to pull away and have a little bit of a private like reframing and like sitting with your family and coming in like it's okay to say like, hey guys, we're all gonna head to our room in this house that we're all staying in and like we're gonna have.
Elizabeth Mae (12:30.711)
you
Brooke Ervin (12:54.769)
Like, urban family powwow, we're going to our house, we're gonna let our room, we're gonna stay here for a second ⁓ and ⁓ kind of like get back on track and course correct for us. ⁓ And not feeling like you have to do that in front of everybody, you don't have to make it like calling anyone out or making a big, but you can just like pull your people in.
Elizabeth Mae (13:14.222)
⁓ I think when I listen to that I hear like a protective and a care. Like we're protecting our well-being and then we're being forthright and maybe even like educational. Like, hey, this is why we stepped away. A child, like age appropriate explanation of that, but like not just like a straight cutoff or even like adding to the chaos of whatever other emotional experience is going. It's just like we're protecting ourselves and we're being clear with our members. And that's that.
is the kind of goal of the boundary, sounds like. ⁓ think ⁓ one of the big things we teach about a ton, because a lot of our care is immune focused, and ⁓ we feel like the immune system dictates a lot of whether the body is able to maintain health for a long time, is that poor boundaries lead to poor immune health. the immune system's job is to survey threat. And if we don't tell threats outside of us, whether they are...
Brooke Ervin (13:46.193)
Yeah, absolutely.
Elizabeth Mae (14:8.110)
Pathogens toxins, you know, I'm not gonna go to into moldy house on purpose and stay and hang out there because that's like Taking my body into threat but emotions are really no different and they do dictate like how the body responds if my body's constantly threatened It's not physically able to heal because the body doesn't heal in a fight-flight freeze state That's not when that happens and it can also those ongoing emotional exposures can suppress the immune system. So
A lot times parents ask like, what can we do about food and the holidays and food and food? And I'm like, that's so important it is. But what's really more important is like the emotional stress and like the rest piece and a boundary that like protects to me feels like rest or, you know, protection away from the strife. ⁓ how do you see, ⁓ and I think about you working with like people leaving abusive situations or
All sorts, not just marriages, but like those sort of things. How do you see good boundaries like supporting health? Or do you see that as someone grows in those things, is there a correlation to health?
Brooke Ervin (15:8.538)
Yeah, absolutely. I ⁓ I think ⁓ as we ⁓ set those boundaries, ⁓ and a lot of that, like a lot of that kind of boundary setting is conversations ahead of time. Like, hey, ⁓ this is, you know, whether that's like leaving abusive situations and you're dealing with ⁓ a spouse or leaving like, or maybe even like ⁓ traumatic ⁓ family situations like.
talking about your expectations ahead of time and making sure that as you plan those expectations, you give yourself time away and time for a brief. So if that's, know, hey, we're gonna go, or we're having family in our house, we're having people over, or we're going to see family, and we're gonna talk ahead of time, they're like, hey, we're fine with kids staying up late one night to watch special Christmas movie, whatever, and have cookies, but like.
These other nights, we're doing bedtime on time, and that means that, hey, I love you, but you need dinner ready ⁓ on time. Or hey, we're dealing with a time change. We have to ⁓ factor this in. And so ⁓ I'm not going to have kids eating two hours late for their body because they're going to feel bad. And then we're going to be up late. We're going to have to adjust this slowly, and that's not going to be good for them. So I'm going to let you know in advance what we're doing. ⁓ This is our plan. And if that means that ⁓ we're going to all go up there and have to be up there and ⁓ set aside. ⁓
be in a different room or like go get them to bed. I make my plans accordingly. So if that means that I need to plan to feed my children separately because dinner's not gonna be ready, I'm not being unkind or being rude. I said what I needed and then I'm gonna follow through on it. So if I tell you, I'm being a family and I say, hey, we really need dinner by 5.30 because this is what my kids are used to. I need something available for them. And if we get to five o'clock and you haven't started dinner, I'm gonna go take care of dinner for my kids.
so that we can stay on track. And that's not because I don't love you and that's not because I don't think your dinner is delicious. That's because that's what my kids need and I told you that. But I communicated that in advance. And then I can stand on that. And if you get offended, that's on you because I told you what I needed. ⁓ I think if that's like, if it's related more towards like... ⁓
Elizabeth Mae (17:18.339)
Hmm.
Brooke Ervin (17:26.262)
maybe ⁓ dealing with like divorce and like those kind of situations or like kids going back and forth like I'm gonna pick up when I said I'm gonna pick up and you're not gonna push that and guilt me into hey but we're having so much fun we're doing this activity can I have just like no I'm so glad you're having so much fun this is the next time that you'll have kiddo and you can continue this activity or ⁓
Elizabeth Mae (17:39.000)
No.
Brooke Ervin (17:50.235)
If you want me to bring it home, ⁓ if you just are really excited about them finishing the activity, I'm happy to bring it home and they can do it with them the next day. Just continuing to up is pick up and you're not pushing me on this. ⁓ Or drop off is, ⁓ and I'm not, I've worked with people before where ⁓ the parent that was supposed to have the child dropped off to them just kept, well we're doing, this is your drop off window and if not, you're gonna have to come to me or you're gonna have to arrange something else or you're gonna have to reset the time. ⁓
Elizabeth Mae (18:0.236)
Yeah, yeah.
Brooke Ervin (18:19.836)
I'm not sitting at your beckon call because then you're allowed to continue to control and manipulate me. My line is my line. I will drop off between 9 and 9.30. If you decide, sorry, we won't be home until 9.45, that's fine. Why don't you come pick the child up on your way home? The end.
Elizabeth Mae (18:25.513)
Mm, yeah. Mm-hmm. ⁓
Elizabeth Mae (18:36.586)
Mm-hmm. ⁓ Yeah. ⁓ Do you feel like people, ⁓ like why do people hesitate not to, ⁓ I mean, even the preemptive, like, hey, these are my requests and needs. This is what my kids needs ⁓ are pre-planning kind of as a boundary. Why do you think people don't? Because it sounds nice, right? Like I'm listening to you. I'm like, that's a brilliant idea. I never think about the time change and expressing like this is what our family needs. ⁓ But what are some reasons or even drawing the boundary like I've experienced. ⁓
Co-parenting situation right like drawing the boundary and saying like no this is the time even though that's fine You're having great time like this is the thing. This is the boundary place. Why do people not? Do the boundary work because really it sounds good like in the end. I think it would work out good ⁓
Brooke Ervin (19:23.408)
Right? ⁓ And ⁓ I feel like I can say this ⁓ very personally, like as a recovering people pleaser, because it doesn't, ⁓ right? Like it doesn't sound nice. It sounds bossy or it sounds like I'm controlling or like in our own ears. We sound like, I'm being so mean when I set a boundary, especially as women. It's like, if I can't acquiesce or be accommodating or just go with the flow, then I'm mean. Instead of the reality is,
Elizabeth Mae (19:30.190)
⁓ Ding ding ding! ⁓ Yeah. Yeah.
Elizabeth Mae (19:51.010)
Mm-hmm.
Brooke Ervin (19:53.264)
The most boundary people are the happiest people because they're like, I will give you all of me in this range. ⁓ You can have full access right here. You don't get over here. ⁓ But we think that sounds mean ⁓ instead of actually being loving. The loving thing is, hey, I'm predictable. I'm going to show up when I tell you I'm going to show up, and I'm going to leave when I tell you I'm going to leave. And I'm going to eat when I tell you I'm going to eat when I'm going to eat, and I'm going to go to bed when I'm going to go to bed. And you know exactly.
Elizabeth Mae (20:2.424)
Mm. ⁓ Mm.
Brooke Ervin (20:22.085)
where you get me and where I show up and I'm fully present in that time. And I think when we realize that I'm then showing up fully present and guess what that means? ⁓ Maybe I'm not on my phone, I'm really present, I'm playing a game, I'm doing an activity, I'm fully present when you have me and when it gets to my line I'm done.
Elizabeth Mae (20:24.163)
Okay.
Elizabeth Mae (20:40.462)
it's really a gift to like get to have someone's like fullness when you are together, like if we think about it. ⁓ And I'm just hearing too, like the loving thing is safety and predictability. And from an immune standpoint, that's like literally the nicest thing you can do for your body, whether you're in relationship or not is safety and predictability and relaxed and more recovery time and space because then the body is healthier. But the people pleaser thing is huge. ⁓ I think that is definitely.
a big piece and then how do we view, I think a lot of times for me like flipping the situation like if I went to someone's home, I'm sorry, if I was being a hostess and someone's coming to stay with me, a friend's coming with their kids and she's like, hey, they go to bed at eight, we eat at five, so everybody feels great, is that okay with you? I honestly would be so glad to accommodate and like make you have the best time that you can have at my house given the thing. Like clear as kind, we say all the time in care and just like in dealing with clients and supporting them.
And I think that applies here so much because in some ways when we don't set boundaries, we almost take away the other person's ability to give us the gift of care. Like if I never heard from my people who are saying from, you know, with me what they needed, I can't provide that to them. Like I can't give them the gift of a good or a better optimal for them, best for them experience. And I think we forget that side when we start drowning in feelings of like.
I mean, this is bossy, why am I, you know, all of that is just not, that's not it. That's not really what a boundary is doing. ⁓
Brooke Ervin (22:13.147)
Right, I love when people stay with me and they're like, hey, we can't eat this or we need this. It feels loving for me to show up for them the way that they need me to. ⁓ I love not having to guess, like, ⁓ shoot, is there, even if it's silly things, like, are there enough guest towels? Like, just come up and tell me, like, I wanna do it for you, I wanna take care of you. ⁓ Or, hey, ⁓ my kiddo is like, ⁓ on a whatever, this fix for food and they really need that. Or, hey,
Elizabeth Mae (22:21.774)
Mm-hmm. ⁓
Brooke Ervin (22:41.659)
What are your favorite snacks for your kid? I'd love to have them in the house for you so they feel comfortable. I love those things, and it makes me feel like I'm loving those people well when I know what they need. Sometimes someone comes in and they're like, we're great with whatever. And I'm like, really? Because I wouldn't be. Are you sure? Because I'd rather you just tell me what you need.
Elizabeth Mae (22:57.454)
Why?
Yeah.
I think too, when we set a boundary and we're clear, the preemptive thing is like such a, I don't want to say it's trend setting, but kind of because I don't feel like we all do that, but like it is really a nice way to set the situation in a good direction before we get there. And it's like, we're not totally helpless because a lot of times holidays can feel helpless. Like you're going to so-and-so's gathering and it's going to be like this and it's in their hot house with their dogs and their cat hair and all on their terms. And like, it doesn't necessarily have to be that way if we do.
kind of some of that preemptive work, but ⁓ kind of want to go through like maybe blitz you on ⁓ ideas and some situations or like boundaries ⁓ for ourselves and situations and like maybe just what comes to mind and whatever comes out is kind what we roll with. But ⁓ what about like social media, TV, screen time? Because that's a big thing for a lot of our kids. Like they, their brains have boundaries and they need boundaries. How can we go about maybe thinking through those things?
Brooke Ervin (23:49.858)
Great.
Elizabeth Mae (24:2.829)
in the holidays.
Brooke Ervin (24:5.752)
Yeah, ⁓ I think, again, like communicating, hey, like we allow our kids to have about X amount of screen time, or ⁓ we allow movies but not social media, like just so you know. And if you're gonna do that, like that's really fine, just let me know because I'm gonna go take my kids to do something else. ⁓ And ⁓ that's uncomfortable because...
Elizabeth Mae (24:19.438)
you
Elizabeth Mae (24:24.686)
Mmm.
Brooke Ervin (24:28.187)
you know, sometimes we get this like, but I want to hang out and have fun with my friends. But if the goal is protecting my kids' well-being, our family functioning, yeah, I'm going to have to go leave the adult conversation and go take my kid on a walk or go to an activity because we're not going to do that, you know. But I think you just have to be really clear. And it has to be, you have to know where you are willing to meet in the middle and where are you not.
Elizabeth Mae (24:46.008)
Mm-hmm.
Brooke Ervin (24:57.689)
I think we need to plan to, like, okay, if we're gonna go see cousins and cousins are on social media a whole lot, ⁓ we're gonna bring other activities. We're gonna bring Legos or coloring books or activity books, but we're also gonna have to just choose. I'm gonna go have to take my kid on a walk. I'm gonna have to, like, and that is the boundary is like, we're not doing that. ⁓ And it's okay if other people are uncomfortable because I get up and leave the room because.
Elizabeth Mae (25:12.707)
Mm.
Brooke Ervin (25:25.869)
I said we weren't doing this and ⁓ you're not willing to respect that so I'm going to go help my kid with this because they can't navigate this situation.
Elizabeth Mae (25:33.861)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, because a lot of times when we fold, we also are gonna get the fallout later, right? Like if I let my kid watch TV, TV, TV, be exposed to things on social media, watch news that's scary that they wouldn't, then I'm gonna be up probably at night with that child who's afraid in the night with the dream or who's exhausted the next day because their brain was like overdone. And so it's kind of too like considering like what, what is, what am I trading here? If I, am I trading?
Peace at this moment for chaos later or am I trading like, can I deal with just a little bit of discomfort for a short bit of time to have peace and what's best for us later? ⁓ What about extending family? Go ahead.
Brooke Ervin (26:13.572)
Yeah, that also.
Oh, sorry. I was just gonna say that also made me think about like, it's also a little different when you're like dealing with your kids and just like maybe other adults versus other kids. So like, if I'm to, you know, grandpa and grandma's house, I might say like, can we switch the news? Like, this is not appropriate for them. And I'm much more willing to be vocal about that with an adult and to say like, hey, can we knock this off? Or hey, can we table this conversation? Like, my kids are here and this is not appropriate. And I'm much more willing to be
Elizabeth Mae (26:26.296)
Boom.
Brooke Ervin (26:46.394)
a little bit bolder with adults than to like maybe depending on the dynamic with a kid, know? So another kid, like I'm not gonna go and, hey, you to get off the screen, my kid's not allowed to be on the screen. I'm not gonna do that to them. I will tell the adults, like, I'm taking the kid on a walk because your kids are on screens and my kids aren't allowed to be on screens right now. So I will like be much more honest and upfront with the adults than I would be with the kids, you know?
Elizabeth Mae (27:0.322)
Yeah.
Elizabeth Mae (27:12.352)
Mm-hmm. ⁓ I think too, you're like taking, like going on a walk, like physically removing, going to another room. In some ways, these are things that I wouldn't really think about like as options because you're in like the family holiday silo and we tend to just like do what everybody else is doing, but we still can like shift culture. We can bring in different activities. We can add to the culture of the environment or we can just straight go on a walk. Like there's really nothing wrong with that. Like we eat food, we're going to go on a walk now. We're going to shift.
And I don't think that's maybe something that we would all think about because you're people-pleasing. You're expected to be in the family holiday routine silo and that's not the only place to be.
Brooke Ervin (27:53.151)
I love a walk on, like when you're ⁓ in the family silo. Like I love that because it's like that threshold theory, you cross the threshold and you can get like a whole reset ⁓ when you move out. ⁓ Like they're feeling wind or they're feeling ⁓ cold air. Like it's just regulating their entire physical body. Their body feels different ⁓ and we can have a new conversation and we're moving. ⁓ So.
Elizabeth Mae (28:1.710)
Hmm. ⁓
Elizabeth Mae (28:8.290)
Mm-hmm.
Brooke Ervin (28:15.754)
sometimes even especially for any kiddos with ADHD or anything else, like my body is moving and so then I can actually have a more clear headed conversation. ⁓ I've taken kiddo on a run before. It's like, ⁓ you're amped, let's go run. Like, I'm not a runner, but we're gonna run today, you know? So, we'll do it. ⁓ And then even planning, like.
Elizabeth Mae (28:23.086)
Hmm.
Elizabeth Mae (28:32.493)
Ha ha.
Brooke Ervin (28:37.850)
hey, if your kids are the only kids in the house and we're going to a house that's not really kid friendly, hey, we're gonna take our kids out for a little while, we're gonna go find an activity. So we've gone rock climbing in the middle of winter when we visit a family. Like, hey, we're gonna go to the rock gym for a few hours, like we need something to do to move our bodies. Or we're gonna go on a hike in the summer. know, yeah, we love changes for regulation. But yeah, even just going to a room and pulling away for a little bit and giving them, also that preserves your kid's dignity to like not make a family.
Elizabeth Mae (28:45.887)
Hmm.
Elizabeth Mae (29:5.314)
Hmm. Yeah, yeah. ⁓ Yeah, what about when like extended family expectations or like events like are going on and on and on and maybe like little kids, they need to take a nap. We have to like really interrupt like what the family is doing. Like how can we navigate those sort of things? Little kid needs against adult preference.
Brooke Ervin (29:29.782)
I mean, I think that's again, we're sharing ahead of time. Like, John, Johnny, whatever, like he naps at 2 p.m. So at 1.30, I'm gonna start his wine down for his 2 p.m. nap. And just making it very clear, like, I'm stepping away from whatever. If you would like me present for the meal or the activity, we need to start it and have time for it to be done, or we need to start it afterwards, or I'm just gonna step away for a little bit and I'll come back on my can, whether that's family card game or a family meal, like.
this is what I'm doing. And so I think just preparing people ahead of time ⁓ when plans are being talked about, hey, we'd like to do this and this and this. OK, well, just so you know, ⁓ this is nap time. This is bedtime. These are the things that I'm doing. ⁓ And then being OK. I would hope if you're with family that it's safe enough that if kiddo gets hungry and dinner's not ready, I'm the parent. I'm going to go.
grab them a snack that I approve out of the fridge. And ⁓ if you're not in a house that you can do that, then that's a whole different world of problems. ⁓ just taking like, I don't have to tiptoe around these adults. I ⁓ am the parent that has been given this child and it is my responsibility and I'm accountable to them more than anyone else in this space.
Elizabeth Mae (30:45.726)
Mm, that's key and a good thing to think about that I am the parent, this is a child and I'm accountable to my responsibility here over the adults. ⁓ What about the mom guilt situation and the perfectionist over functioning? Like how do we like these are the ⁓ moms who like come January, they're like busted and need put back together. How do they work on having boundaries? And I think boundaries here come with awareness like realizing when it's happening because it
It's all, I mean, it's all dang month. You start at school and you've got parties and then end of the, know, it's, ⁓ and it really starts at Thanksgiving if we're honest and it's a marathon. But how do we stay away from that like perfectionist over function, mom guilt? Where do boundaries come in there?
Brooke Ervin (31:31.576)
Yeah, ⁓ I mean, think there's ⁓ some things you can do to kind of like make sure or like take a step back and look at what you're doing. So maybe you make a list of like ⁓ all the things that I want to do in this holiday season and then make your list of your responsibilities. Is this reasonable? Like if I have to take care of the house and cook this meal and travel this and I want to do all 25 million activities, ⁓ is this reasonable? ⁓ Is this reasonable, you know? ⁓ And maybe even like check in with like
Elizabeth Mae (31:57.304)
Mm. Yeah.
Brooke Ervin (32:2.136)
Are my kids gonna enjoy this or is this me just doing because I feel something? ⁓ Is this meaningful to them because they don't feel their best when they're running roughshod all over the place and I'm irritable because we're rushing to the next thing so that we can cram in all the things. They don't feel loved in that. I'm not giving them my best. ⁓ Maybe it's asking a spouse or partner like, hey.
Is this good? Or are you going to be irritable and stressed because I'm putting so much on us that you don't even feel that. You're like, this isn't loving, this isn't fun, this is miserable. ⁓ Giving those little checks, is it ⁓ attainable, is it reasonable, and how many balls am I going to drop to get this done? ⁓ Am I going to show up best for myself or for my kids, for my partner? ⁓
Elizabeth Mae (32:48.322)
Hmm. ⁓ We talk a lot about trying to maintain your routine during the holiday. And if you're having to cut your things that you feel good doing, like if you're having to cut, I mean, cut a workout that's your routine once is one thing. Cutting them all or shifting your food greatly or the things that make you feel good, removing those things. I think a lot of times ⁓ it's like no thought. Moms just like chop all that for themselves to make everything else happen. And that too is a boundary, like saying, no, this is what
I need to make it through ⁓ and not fully. ⁓
Brooke Ervin (33:21.848)
Yeah, if I can't show up for myself, like I can't show up for anybody else, you know.
Elizabeth Mae (33:26.694)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And we can say that and agree with that. And then in practice, ⁓ as we get closer to January 1, we crumble on, you know, those sort of things, I think, sometimes. So I think the permission to, like, simplify and remember that, like, ⁓ the people that need to be happy are the people that need to be happy. And what does happy look like? You're pointing that out. Like, is it quality time with...
Brooke Ervin (33:32.280)
Okay.
Elizabeth Mae (33:51.744)
in full attention of my parents or is it all of these things and super magic and check all the boxes? Like, are we in reality or are we in comparison town? ⁓ Thinking about those sort of things. Okay, my favorite one is food traditions because obviously we work with people on food. ⁓ And I think we have two, we've got two parts. So we have adults.
Brooke Ervin (34:4.452)
Yes.
Brooke Ervin (34:7.801)
Yeah.
Elizabeth Mae (34:16.046)
trying to navigate food situations where they can go, gluten's a big one, right? So if you recently figure out your celiac and you, it's really not safe for you to have, and this is a new discovery as an adult, and we're going into a family situation, what are some things that we can do to A, still participate, and B, stay healthy and safe without, you know, as as I do, people have comments and.
opinions and they want to inspect your health and maybe you should try this and have you thought of that and are you sure it's celiac? ⁓ Like how do we navigate some of that stuff?
Brooke Ervin (34:51.161)
I think, so, I mean, ⁓ with regards to other people's opinions and chiming in, ⁓ I think kind of planned scripted responses are really helpful.
Elizabeth Mae (35:2.412)
Yeah.
Brooke Ervin (35:4.301)
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. ⁓ Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Or I'll talk to my provider about that. ⁓ hmm, that's worth considering. I'll look into that later. Like, just figure out something that's politely, respectfully, thanks them for noticing or engaging or whatever or acknowledges their chime in, but shuts it down. Thank you for your thoughts.
Elizabeth Mae (35:6.062)
Mm.
Elizabeth Mae (35:11.822)
Mm.
Brooke Ervin (35:33.753)
⁓ And sometimes you have to use the same thing. if it's an insistent family member that's going to keep going, thank you for your thoughts. Just let it sit. Let them sit with, you know, or maybe ⁓ if it's a passive aggressive comment, just to, what do you mean by that?
Elizabeth Mae (35:34.710)
Yeah, that's a lie.
Elizabeth Mae (35:44.043)
Mm. Mm.
Elizabeth Mae (35:55.286)
in your court. ⁓
Brooke Ervin (35:57.454)
What do you mean by that? Well, ⁓ they're gonna stutter. What do mean by that? ⁓ I think as far as like, you know, thinking through foods and like if it is something new for you, obviously this is your area of expertise, but like it's okay to bring your own food and that's not offensive to anybody. Like I'm gonna bring two favorites so that I can leave this event not hungry. I'm not cranky. ⁓ I'm not having to... ⁓
Elizabeth Mae (36:2.702)
Hmm.
Elizabeth Mae (36:16.204)
When is ⁓
Brooke Ervin (36:26.729)
And maybe you ⁓ pre-feed yourself a snack at home or your people a snack at home so that you're not dealing with hangry and hungry. ⁓ But it's okay to bring a couple of things and say, we brought some favorites and we'll get the other things we want later. And realize, like, the food doesn't have to be or shouldn't have to be the central event. It should be at the time of the people.
Elizabeth Mae (36:46.848)
Yeah, yeah. I think hearing you say, and we say it all the time, but I think it can't be understated that it's okay to bring your own things. It's okay to say, I'm gonna eat these two things. It's okay to say, thank you for making all this, but I brought these foods that are safe for me. And it's okay to care for yourself in that way. You're literally being a better guest if you are feeding yourself and you are feeling good for the time that you're there to be with the people. And I think a lot of times,
when folks are moving into food change that's necessary. It's like shocking to them that it's okay for them to ⁓ bring for themselves, provide for themselves, ⁓ say things but no things. ⁓ And food stuff, because we all have food memories too and food, ⁓ food's such a central part to relationships. So it's like rustic-yicky. ⁓ Can be.
Brooke Ervin (37:27.257)
Absolutely.
I mean...
Brooke Ervin (37:38.187)
Yeah, ⁓ we have to kind of like make a shift there and it's like food is central or like the time together is central. You know, maybe ⁓ like I'm gonna be really intentional to sit at the table with my different food, but I'm gonna sit here with you guys and have conversation until the meal is done. Or ⁓ maybe you introduce a new rhythm for connection. So maybe you bring a new favorite card game or board game and you say like, my gosh, I love this. I wanna share it with you. ⁓ So finding other ways to. ⁓
brain connection that aren't central on food when food gets tricky.
Elizabeth Mae (38:9.874)
How do we talk to our kids when like they're the ones having to do food change and we're bringing this, you know, it's one thing for me to go and bring my two dishes and no, this is what I'm going to have. I'm going to keep my body healthy by eating these things. But when we have to take our kids and say like, no, you can't have that or like, and then we deal with family members being like, which kind of goes back to that same like one liner pre fab sentences that kind of shut stuff down. But how do we in our relationship with our children establish food boundaries?
at a food holiday for diet meat and stuff.
Brooke Ervin (38:43.501)
Yeah, ⁓ I mean, ⁓ as you know, so I have walked through this with my kids ⁓ and we had lots and lots of limitations. I was very, very blessed ⁓ that my family was very supportive and would say like, what can we cook? ⁓ They were happy to change recipes. And I think if you have that family support, it's amazing because you can say like, actually, let me give you some recipes that totally work for our kiddo that is the same thing or very similar. And if.
Elizabeth Mae (38:49.453)
Okay.
Brooke Ervin (39:8.931)
grandma or auntie or whoever is willing to make two recipes and have a separate dish so they have something that's great ⁓ or is willing to put the allergen food away and make sure it's not out in front of people. That's fantastic and ⁓ we love that. We're here for them and we thank ⁓ them a lot and stuff. But I think with kiddos, ⁓ depending on their age, explaining how it doesn't make them feel good, explaining ⁓ this isn't good for them.
And then offering maybe even if it's not a holiday food or not an exact ⁓ replica or duplicate, like how about we take one of your favorite foods so that they're excited about what they're getting and it's not ⁓ that they just get a ⁓ weak substitute or a different substitute that they're not excited about. So ⁓ if my kiddo can't have ⁓ whatever's being served at the meal but is like ⁓ super pumped for a, I don't know.
gluten-free pizza and they're like not gonna bat an eye well I'll show up with that I'm gonna show up with something that makes them just as excited and feel just as included and not feel like they're missing out you know so that I don't have to make a direct well everyone else is having this and this is as close as I can get or or I'm just gonna you're only gonna get two of the things like how about I just bring something they're excited about
Elizabeth Mae (40:25.454)
Mm, mm, mm, I like that. Yeah, something to look forward to. Novelty is such a tool with kids when it comes to food. You know, we can change things up, but if you bring in something new that's different or fun or cut up into shape or it's cute or, you know, like any sensory difference that's fun for a kid can really shift it and kind of give you more of that, you know, whimsy possibility feel instead of I'm stubborn and stuck on what I can't have. And I love that.
moving foods like the allergen foods away from the kids view because ⁓ adults can go to the next room or the tall counter to get the ⁓ whatever those other foods are just little hacks like that. And I do think you're so right. Like if you have my mom, literally our cookbook is ⁓ largely in part to her because she went through so many recipes that we'd had forever and was like, I'm just going to figure out how to make these waffles so that we can have gluten-dairy free.
And like they're fantastic. And there are so many family members who either want to make a recipe that you have or who enjoy figuring it out. Like a lot of times our hostesses love hostessing and cooking and it's not really a big ask. It's like an opportunity again for them to give you a gift to love you well if you engage. And sometimes we get really stuck. I mean, there's so much grief around food and there's a lot going on too when we're in a transition season.
But we forget about that, that it's just not us and our food thing, it's everyone else too. Not everyone, because there definitely are ⁓ nosy rosies and rooty tooties, but there are lots of people who want to love us well if we give them the opportunity, if we educate.
Brooke Ervin (42:6.701)
Yeah, I think for years I was a person who wouldn't ask. wanted someone to ask me or I was just going to figure it out or do it myself. wasn't going like, if you offered to do it, I'll let you, but I'm never going to ask you. I'm just going to figure it out, handle it on my own. And realizing ⁓ it's OK to say like, and you can say it with a caveat or an out, but to say, hey, ⁓ we can't have this food this year. ⁓
Elizabeth Mae (42:13.324)
I mean
Brooke Ervin (42:33.588)
would you want to try to make a substitute? Do you have bandwidth for that? Because I have little kids and maybe you're hosting and you don't or I'm traveling and you're not. Do you have bandwidth for this? If you don't, it's okay. I'll figure something out. I'm totally fine with that. But I just thought if you're already making stuff, you might have bandwidth for it. You might be up for it. Just wanted to have a conversation and give them an opportunity. Some people, ⁓ I figure out in the world, are really bad offers but more than willing to do it. ⁓
Elizabeth Mae (42:57.984)
Mmm.
Brooke Ervin (43:0.108)
long time wasn't willing to ask and you have to ask and you can just ask openly like I'm fine to do this I'll make something happen but if you wanted to you know and see what they say.
Elizabeth Mae (43:10.232)
Yeah, negotiate and have the conversation. I think too, like, you know, we're all on our phones, phone stuff, but we forget that we can have a conversation about something and that every like gift giving ⁓ care about someone else's situation is really negotiation. We're just coming to the table with like, this is what I can do. What can you do? And some people you do, you have to draw them out and you have to start that conversation and be the person that's like, ⁓ what feels good to you? This is like, you're almost doing most parts of the conversation, but also it's worth it to like,
bring that and try to navigate and negotiate and see. And there's little things too, like people are so intimidated by food stuff. And so often, like if you can't eat gluten, for example, you know, people are like, what's gluten in? It's not hard really to learn. ⁓ What do you, yeah, like, what do you, well, we do all the fruits and vegetables. They're totally fine. But like sometimes people don't know or they don't want to learn the whole thing, but they're totally fine to not put the gravy on the turkey so that the turkey can be eaten by everyone. Like there's little things like that where like,
Brooke Ervin (43:52.866)
What do you eat? Yeah. ⁓
Elizabeth Mae (44:9.516)
If we just don't have like all the gluten-free stuff, not touch the gluten and stuff, like that can open up a host of things for people to eat, especially like Thanksgiving and Christmas food. Of course, lots of food traditions, but they can be easier holidays to navigate if we just do some little simple education. ⁓ But yeah, I think that asking part and thinking about other people, like the way they're gonna engage ⁓ in probably having to be the leader of a lot of discussion. ⁓
Brooke Ervin (44:27.959)
Yes.
Elizabeth Mae (44:39.214)
It's worth it. think it's totally worth it. And people, give people the opportunity to surprise you and take care of you, which I think is cool too. So, okay. So my other thing that I was curious about for clients is just like holidays are a lot. They're go, go, go. Some of it boundaries or not is non-negotiable. And there's a lot. How can we build capacity tolerance in our kids and ourselves when we see kids like going off the rails or we feel like you talked about taking a minute to yourself. Like I'm going to go outside. Don't follow me.
we're all gonna go on a walk. Any other tools that like we could think about bringing in to help our families and ourselves make it through the necessities.
Brooke Ervin (45:22.326)
Yeah, I think bringing in ⁓ the rhythms and routines that you can with you, like a lot of them can travel, a of our routines can travel. ⁓ I have a friend that her kiddos sleep with ⁓ essential oils every night, and so she takes it with her everywhere she goes. Like we're going to bring her lavender, and we're doing our routine like normal. We're bringing our lotion, like ⁓ not skimping on those routines that feel. ⁓
safe and grounding to your kids, taking those with you when you can. Yeah, I think spacing things out when you can, like just because everybody else is going back to back back doesn't mean you are, especially, this is especially for those whose family maybe are all in the same area and you don't just have to travel and be huddled up in the silo, like hey, if your family's all within an hour or so, like,
Elizabeth Mae (46:1.806)
Yeah.
Brooke Ervin (46:16.106)
we're gonna be gone and then we're gonna actually go home and spend the afternoon at home and ⁓ do nap time at home or ⁓ we're staying home for the morning and we'll be ready to see people at this time. So just taking that space or normal rhythms when you can, ⁓ realizing that if someone else's capacity is to run from activity to activity to activity and go nonstop, we applaud them. We are so happy for them and we don't have to be them. ⁓
Elizabeth Mae (46:39.998)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, not everybody has that capacity.
Brooke Ervin (46:45.173)
No, and some people don't even enjoy it. ⁓ if you don't enjoy running around and saying, like, hey, ⁓ we're going and going and going, and you would rather go back to your house and turn off all the things and take a nap, ⁓ while your kids take a nap, and then say, we'll be ready to be back around people at five o'clock after everyone's gotten up and had a snack and ⁓ chilled out for an hour. Like, that's okay if you ⁓ can do that. Or, hey, because the entire family isn't...
Elizabeth Mae (46:47.394)
Yeah, personalities.
Brooke Ervin (47:14.199)
or is maybe like everybody else is staying for seven days for family travel, you got four. We're doing four, that's what we can do. And we would rather do four now and then come see you in two months and do three more or like, know, those kinds of things. think those kinds of boundaries too, like you don't have to give in to rat race culture.
Elizabeth Mae (47:19.000)
Mm. Mm.
Elizabeth Mae (47:36.538)
I think too, when we see families whose kids get sick, sick, over the holidays, because we definitely have some of those who are like doing sick day call two, three times in December. They are the families who ⁓ go, go, go. ⁓ And when there is rest and there's like, we're going to go home and have nap time here, or we reduce stimulation, or we're literally not going to go to another family meal because we've had like five desserts and full meals today, ⁓ whatever that may be like, those families do better health wise too, because like your body really
There are limits and we're not always good at seeing those, like, and there are limits that are different for adults than there are for kids. And all of our kids are different. Some of them, you may have one who really has a limit and nobody else does. And I think too, it's okay to like split sometimes. Like if you're in town and one really needs to be removed, but two are having a good time, can mom and dad navigate and negotiate that before, or we have families who their parents are divorced and mom will go and spend like a longer time with her parents.
or with this and then they'll spend a shorter time here. Mom and dad, I think sometimes too, we think about like, everybody's gotta be together. We all gotta do it, everything the same. We all gotta do exactly, no. Like there's, we have to make space for nuance if we also want to make space for physical and emotional health, especially with little kids because they're not as forgiving. I was there. Yeah, you don't get the motion, but I think it's okay.
Brooke Ervin (48:58.977)
Yeah.
I think we should maybe emulate them more, you know? Like, they tell us what they need and they may make it clear. ⁓ Everyone just has to get in line and ⁓ figure it out because ⁓ it's a need and we recognize it as a need and I think as adults we tend to go, that's not a need. But is it a need? you're a more introverted person, ⁓ is it a need for you to have downtime? Yes, ⁓ take it.
Elizabeth Mae (49:16.899)
Really?
Brooke Ervin (49:27.863)
It's not like, it's not a want. It is you're wiring and that is okay and you are made that way and that is okay. Like that is good and beautiful and there is nothing wrong with how you are wired. If you say, I love all you people, I'm putting my kids to bed and I'm actually gonna go sit in my bed and read for an hour because I am peopled out or, you know, like I think just leaning in like you don't have to become somebody else because you're around the holidays. Like it's okay to be exactly who you are. You are good and loved and wonderful as you are.
Elizabeth Mae (49:31.650)
Man.
Elizabeth Mae (49:45.294)
with me.
Elizabeth Mae (49:53.185)
Hmm.
Elizabeth Mae (49:57.582)
That's really important to come in it from a place of like this is what I need this who I am I'm worthy of an experience that I enjoy and that is good for me for the holidays too because holidays can really easily become about everybody else and Maybe I have my last three questions. What do you hope families remember most this holiday season?
Brooke Ervin (50:18.648)
Boundaries aren't mean. Boundaries aren't Yeah, they're just not. Yeah, they're loving. I it's true, loving. I love when other people tell me what to expect and then I get to experience the best part of them and I get to appreciate who they are. And it's not a guessing game. That's another one. Like, when I communicate, it's a guessing game. If someone comes to me and says, hey, I need this and this and this, then I'm not left guessing, I'm not walking on eggshells, I'm not worried about.
Elizabeth Mae (50:18.798)
⁓ Yeah. I really like it. Yeah, yeah.
Elizabeth Mae (50:38.413)
Mmm. ⁓
Mm-hmm.
Brooke Ervin (50:48.213)
reacting or pushing a button or like where is the unknown line? Like communication means that no one's on eggshells.
Elizabeth Mae (50:57.073)
Mm-hmm. That's a good one. What about a word of encouragement to single parents who are facing maybe their first holiday season in transition, different tradition? We didn't really go into a lot of this stuff because that's a whole nother. We did a little bit. Whole nother can of worms. But what would you say to the single parent in that in that new holiday season?
Brooke Ervin (51:15.895)
⁓ I mean, first of all, I your kids don't need tons of financial resources. They don't need you to keep everything as it was before. They know it's different. ⁓ They're not fooled. They don't need you to pretend like it's all as it was before. ⁓ What does it look like to consider new and sustainable rhythms? ⁓ know, whether that's a sleepover, ⁓
Elizabeth Mae (51:28.888)
Mm.
Elizabeth Mae (51:37.740)
Hmm.
Brooke Ervin (51:40.671)
in the floor under the tree that that's sustainable for as long as they want it. You know, what does it mean to like, hey, we're going to have a baking day, not a go do this big expensive activity day. Like, well, just kind of ⁓ reframing, like use that as an opportunity to say like, you have me, like this is what you have for the holidays. You have your time with me. You have memories. ⁓ We're going to do things that is not about stuff. ⁓ Like removing all of that pressure, especially that
beginning, like holiday pressure of single parenting and things are changing. know like oftentimes moms are getting jobs or working more than they ever were before and they're feeling lots of guilt. Like your kids aren't gonna remember how much money you spent, they are gonna remember your presence.
Elizabeth Mae (52:12.268)
Yeah.
Elizabeth Mae (52:25.454)
Mm-hmm. ⁓ That is, would say, one of the really big gifts of those first couple years of solo parenting after a divorce is that you do have an opportunity to do really sweet things like a baking day, or you have the opportunity to simplify. And in some ways, hopefully, ⁓ at least in my experience, family will kind of see that and yield to that. And it's almost, we can view it as an opportunity that here's a chance for us to re-
do life in a rhythm that we can, I think the sustainable piece is such a good ⁓ language ⁓ that we have an opportunity to build new rhythms and then it doesn't have to all be grief. It can be like excitement and expectation and nourishment and more one-on-one time. And that's a really good ⁓ reminder in a situation that feels like it could just all be grief that just follows you up ⁓ the whole time. But ⁓ last question is when I ask everybody.
And I think we can bend it holiday wise or otherwise, but how have you, ⁓ or have you seen a client ⁓ be loved well while navigating ⁓ chronic illness?
Brooke Ervin (53:33.974)
I mean, think ⁓ one of the things that I kind of mentioned earlier is when family members come around and say, like, how can we cook for you? Or ⁓ what works for you? How can we ⁓ support you? So I think we love people well ⁓ in chronic illness when we ask what they need. ⁓ And we're open to the answer. It's not a guided answer. ⁓ Or when we express, hey, I'd like to do this. How can I do this?
Elizabeth Mae (53:51.884)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Brooke Ervin (54:2.856)
in light of your circumstances or situations right now. ⁓ And being open to that flexing a little bit, you know.
Elizabeth Mae (54:10.114)
Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. That's such a good one. I think people don't know always how to engage with the chronic illness piece, especially in like a holiday and food situation. The flexibility piece is key because you can get a lot of different needs, spit back at you, which is cool ⁓ if you're willing, but also being flexible, knowing that you don't know and flexibility is good. So ⁓ I appreciate you doing this a lot, Brooke. Where can our listeners find you, find your practice, ⁓ tell us ⁓ all the ways they can.
Brooke Ervin (54:21.995)
Thanks.
Brooke Ervin (54:27.318)
Yeah.
Elizabeth Mae (54:38.968)
can reach you all and ⁓ work on their own boundaries. ⁓
Brooke Ervin (54:41.078)
Yeah. Me and my incredible team can be found at apriciscounseling.org. And we are located in Louisville just off the Gene Snyder on Blankenbaker. So you can come see us in person. We can do telehealth for anyone in the state of Kentucky. And yeah.
Elizabeth Mae (55:1.058)
You guys on Instagram?
Brooke Ervin (55:3.730)
Sorry, we are. ⁓ Africa's counseling. ⁓ I forget about that piece. We actually do a lot there, because my team does it, and I don't have to. ⁓ Actually, ⁓ it's fun too. mean, on Instagram, there's a lot of ⁓ good coping skills. So maybe when you're feeling like you want to escape your family, go get reminded of your coping skills, your breathing, and stuff like that. It's a spot to find that.
Elizabeth Mae (55:4.735)
Okay. ⁓
other places. Yeah, well.
Elizabeth Mae (55:14.777)
Yeah, 11 team moment
Elizabeth Mae (55:28.618)
Hmm, ⁓ yeah, that's a point. Well, thanks very much. This was a good chat.
Brooke Ervin (55:33.963)
Thank you. ⁓
