When “Healthy Living” Isn’t Enough: Chronic Infections, Immune Dysfunction & Rebuilding Resilience

Jamie had already done so many of the “right” things. She was gluten free, dairy free, had worked with a Nutritional Therapy Practitioner, prioritized gut health, and lived a deeply holistic lifestyle. But despite all of that, her body still kept crashing every time she got sick.

In this episode, Elizabeth and Jamie unpack a powerful example of functional immunology in real life — what happens when recurring infections, chronic immune stress, and unresolved pathogen burden become the missing layer beneath years of IBS symptoms, fatigue, anxiety, inflammation, and “normal” lab work.

After a brutal illness season involving strep, mono, walking pneumonia, Influenza A, repeated antibiotic use, and lingering immune dysfunction, Jamie realized her body wasn’t recovering the way it used to. Together, they discuss the patterns that pointed toward deeper chronic infection involvement, including Lyme and tick-borne illness, and how a gentle approach using both clinical and classical homeopathy helped her body begin regulating again.

This conversation beautifully highlights the difference between simply managing symptoms and actually rebuilding immune resilience — including the emotional side of healing, enjoying food again, and finally feeling safe in your body.

In this episode:

• Functional immunology and chronic illness patterns

• Lyme, EBV, chronic infections & immune dysregulation

• IBS, reflux, histamine issues & gut symptoms

• Clinical vs. classical homeopathy

• Why “normal labs” don’t always equal wellness

• Recovering from recurring illness and antibiotic overload

• Learning to trust your body again

A favorite takeaway:
“A regulated immune system doesn’t mean never getting sick — it means responding appropriately and recovering well.”

Please note that transcripts may contain minor errors or inaccuracies. We hope you enjoy reading them and find them helpful.

Hey, you're going to be okay. I'm Elizabeth Mae and my functional health practice. Hey, hey MAE helps people heal when they've exhausted traditional options when no one can figure out your health challenges. My team helps you resolve symptoms and restores your health. You're listening to my podcast. Where will your stories of healing chronic illness from a root cause immune centered approach?

Welcome back. Today we're going to be talking a lot about when normal labs aren't the whole story and how really understanding functional immunology chronic illness helped me to see a way out for Jamie in the current health struggles that she was facing. We're really going to walk through functional immunology and what happens when someone keeps getting sick and keeps being told, I mean, everything pretty much looks normal, but their body clearly isn't functioning normally.

Jamie today is guess had already really like established a solid foundation when it comes to nutrition. She was eating gluten free and dairy free and really taking good care of herself. She'd already done some good work in the past with another provider and really had a lot of good foundations, but that was not really holding her body up enough when it came to chronic infections in that immune dysregulation.

This is such a classic example of how foundational nutrition matters really deeply. But sometimes the immune system is going to kind of call the shots and need more support. So, Jamie, I want you to share with us just like one welcome. But how you were totally not new to holistic health and kind of what got you into having worked on your health in previous seasons?

And you know, what got you to where you were as far as how you maintained your health? Yeah, well, it's definitely been kind of a journey for me. And I know when I started with Abby and did our onboarding, a lot of things kind of clicked for me that I had this kind of lifelong kind of these chronic issues, you know, starting in childhood with recurrent ear infections, lots of antibiotic use at a time where, like the 90s was antibiotics for everything.

Every other week, my teenage years, I feel like, is when I kind of started gravitating towards something different because I just, I was always run down, I was always sick. I started with recurrent dropped throat. I just knew that I didn't have the energy that I should as a teenager and like my peers. So that's when I kind of first got into first it was being a vegetarian, then it was being a vegan and dabbling in gluten free and just kind of reading all of these, kind of like the hip, trendy, trendy things.

But that's kind of what piqued my interest. And everything I did, I kind of had a little bit of movement with. And then as I got older, in my 20s, the more recurrent strep eventually having my tonsils out, which kind of lifted a huge burden off of my body at the time. And then I at that point, I really transitioned to like being gluten free.

Dairy free had a few years where I feel like I was feeling pretty decent, and then I started with some chronic GI issues. I had this little flare of this year to Korea out of nowhere. I would break out in hives anytime I was in the sun, you know, went to the doctor. You know, it's stress. It's stress was kind of the big thing I always heard.

And I it wasn't a very stressful period of my life. And I just kind of thought, all right, well, if nobody can help me, I have to, to do some other things, which is where I kind of just started my own research on nutrition, working with local providers.

And again, you know, I had a few good years. And then after I had my daughter after pregnancy, as when things kind of took a downturn again, went back to that kind of nutritional foundation that I had. And just I felt like everything that I did move the needle a little bit, but not enough. And I worked with some really great providers that would get me a little bit further and just kind of keep me enough to where I was, was functioning, but wasn't 100%.

Yeah. When I listened to your story initially on our clarity call, I just kept hearing, like you, you were doing really great taking care of yourself. But it was it was like a little triggering event here and there or a big one. I mean, a birth of a child is definitely a big one. But even the tonsil piece and there was some recurrent strep and then there were stressors.

Those are all triggers that really give the immune system a push down to where it's not going to continue maintaining resilience. And a lot of your symptoms are also very immune driven hives, super immune driven. There is some GI stuff in there. Again, immune systems regulating that. And there were just kind of changes that were always immune related.

And those were easy things. And did you feel like at that point because you were doing stuff and you knew, hey, I'm doing stuff, I'm feeling better. I have tools that can help me get to a place. So you had a good, solid foundation, but did you feel like there was like a lingering feeling that something deeper was going on and you just hadn't figured it out yet?

Or like, what was kind of your internal? Were you frustrated because you're like, I'm doing everything right, but I'm not getting there. What was that like? It definitely I had from even back when things kind of started flaring up in college for me. I just always felt like there there's I know that there is something that is not right, and I just can't figure out what it is.

And there was a period that it was like, okay, maybe it is stress and anxiety and having to work through that, but very much so. I always felt like I'm feeling good doing all these things, but I feel like I should be feeling better and I'm seeing other people doing these things and doing so much better than I am, you know?

And then after having my daughter, who didn't sleep until she was about three years old. It was like, okay, I'm tired, I'm not sleeping. It was always kind of these like, justifications. And it wasn't until, you know, I got really sick in 2004 or 2024 before working with you guys, that it was like, okay, this is not normal.

This is not my body's normal response to getting sick. And this is something more this is something more going on for the way that I'm taking care of myself. And it almost kind of started this cycle of, you know, well, why take such good care of myself if I'm going to feel like this? Anyways? I am going to, you know, get the bag of chips during lunch or maybe that'll, you know, kind of, you know, make a difference, which it didn't.

But you get you get kind of resentful after all of these years of doing these things and just I felt like I was getting worse instead of getting better. Yeah. We clarity calls are a wild place, because that's the point that we first engage with clients and they share with us, like, I've done all these things and I've tried all these protocols and I eat really well, and I've been doing this for years, and no one's ever been able to fix me or help me or get any sort of something that's sustained and feels like a new foundation for my body.

And that same story for me. I mean, ten years of working through chronic Epstein-Barr and GI stuff and bacterial things, but the immune system parts really would change it. And your story kind of has that wonderful linchpin. You kind of have this like illness spiral. You mentioned 2024 with like the strep piece and then it like literally just continued layered on.

I remember doing your clarity call. You were like in this and this and then this and then this. And I was like, okay, yeah, it's so clear. But what was that timeline like for you when you were in that illness spiral? So I had recently I was a stay at home mom for a few years, and I had recently gone back to work.

So again, I was kind of in this. All right. I work, you know, in a primary school building. Obviously there's more germs. I have a small child these justifications. Right. And then going starting off that 2024 school year, I mean, I think it was wasn't even the end of week one. And I was taking a sick day and going to the doctor and it was like, yeah, but strep and I'm like strep like, you know, oh, well, you know, you work in a school.

And I used to get the you're just a tired working mom. Everything's fine. You're a tired working mom. And then had another I was I think I was sick October, November. Then in December, I remember going out for my husband's birthday and just sitting at dinner, and I'm like, I am so tired. I cannot keep my eyes open.

This is something's wrong. And from that point on, it was about a month and a half of, I mean, so sick I couldn't get out of bed begging for for blood work for my doctor who again, was, you're just a tired, working mom. This is the latest virus. And I ended up having mono, mono and walking pneumonia. So that was quite the recovery from that.

And it was like, okay, you know, maybe this is maybe this is it. This is why I've, I've been so sick. And then I think coming out of that, I had maybe three weeks of feeling okay. And then my whole house had flu. And then that was about another month, month and a half recovery. And it was like, all right, well, your body is recovering slower because you have the model that's a chronic condition, you know, and my my mom had obscene bar when she was about two months after I was born.

So she was very familiar with that piece. And so it was trying to kind of connect the dots, like, has this been my issue the whole time, this underlying, you know, Epstein-Barr. And then again, another like three weeks of being healthy. And I would go back to work and I'd work about four days and I'd be back to being run down again.

That like feeling like you're hit by a bus joint, pain, tiredness. And then I think I had about three more illnesses by the time I called you, and I remember it was like my daughter's nap time and looking through things on Instagram and being sick and on another round of antibiotics and just deciding to do the clarity call and just feeling so like, like hopeless, like what is how am I can continue getting sick and ending up in this cycle?

So it was a very it was a very difficult time for sure. Not being able to parent the way that I wanted to parents and be as active as I wanted to be, and balancing work and motherhood and being a wife and a friend. And there was a lot of balls dropped during that time. Yeah, I remember talking to you and you were like, I'm a school teacher.

I have a small child. I continually am sick over and over again. But even your symptom review was just like there was so much fatigue. There was also some emotional like panic, anxiety, worry kind of stuff popping through and irritability. Stuff that wasn't maybe your norm. And then there was stuff popping up during illness, like joint pain seemed to be more profound when you were sick.

And those are always flags for me that like something else is popping through. You also live in New York, an area that's pretty endemic for bug borne infection. And so that was something that was on my mind, too. And you'd had like, yours was pretty clear. You'd had this trippy stuff, you'd had flu. We'd had like we'd identified several things that were there and hanging out.

But it was like every time you got sick, your body kind of changed how it would respond after. Like there definitely wasn't recovery. But for me, there were symptoms popping through that made me think, there's more here than just the things that we're identifying. And that's really where functional immunology becomes really important because like a conventional labs and bloodwork, which we ran like don't necessarily give you big red flags of like, this is what's wrong with you.

But the patterns of symptoms, the patterns of your cyclical illness, and some pieces on your blood work that were deviated. For me, I heard chronic infection patterns immediately. So when I brought that up and said, I think there's more chronic infection here than the ones you've labeled and probably bug borne illness. How did that hit for you on the clarity call?

I remember getting off the call and talking to my husband, and again, I'd worked with practitioners. I had worked with a practitioner for my daughter when we were struggling with some sleep stuff that I thought was some gut things, and we'd had these experiences and, you know, there's always a cost to it. And him saying, it's like, there's no way.

And I'm like, there's no there is. Absolutely. How would I would know if I had Lyme disease? There's no way. And for about three days we kind of mold it over like, you know, is this is this worth doing the testing for it to just come back? I truly believed that it was just going to be mono, that it was just this lingering mono that was causing all of these issues.

So I was there. I was certainly for a point, like, there's no way this is I'm going to spend this money and it's going to be exactly what I thought that it was. And we had that conversation where he was like, you know what? We've done this a bunch of times and you get a little bit better and we're ultimately back where we are, and I want you to feel your best.

But if we're putting all our eggs in one basket, like, do it, get all the testing, but like, this is it. If this doesn't work, you know, we're going to have, you know, at a point you can only spend so much and do so much. And it was definitely before working with you, kind of grasping at straws and doing other alternative things and colonic and just, you know, different kind of buzzy, you know, health things.

And it was definitely I had my doubts for sure. And when those test results came back, I was very I was felt very validated, but very shocked at the amount of like co-infections I had as well. Yeah. I think it is hard on this side to have that conversation because we see this every single day and because there are many of us practitioners in the group, like I get to observe loads of tests and loads of symptom load, which is cool because that helps me to be better at recognizing the pattern.

And also it's a little bit wild to tell someone in a clarity call like, I know you've taken care of yourself. You found these good paths to help yourself. You're doing good things to help prop yourself up like there's nothing wrong with the colonic. But if you need it on the regular or it responds to you in a certain way, not saying either those were true for you.

That tells me more. And to have the panel won the panel is costly that we run for an infections and I hate it. And I regularly talk with the company about ways that we can modify. So it would be better because it is such a powerful tool. And I think, too, for someone who's been on a journey, it has to feel for me.

Even when I found my infection load and I'd had a tick bite at the time that I looked at mine, so it was more clear. It feels really validating instead of like run around and the I'm working really hard, but I'm not getting anywhere kind of a thing. Yeah, a lot of your symptom burden two is kind of like all over the place.

And we kind of talked about that a little bit. But there was like digestive IBS type of things, but there was also anxiety. Then there was fatigue, which makes sense with MC bar. There is kind of that HyVee inflammation, histamine issues, the joint pain. And when we looked at infection load, I mean we saw lots of things. Right.

Line was there. We saw several co-infections. The Bartonella was present definitely a viral load, which sometimes people will favor one or the other to where they're more bacterial challenged, which you had had the strep history. You lost your tonsils. So I knew, well, it's probably not hanging out predominantly in the throat. It may have moved more to the GI and anxiety type expression.

You'd had sinusitis stuff before, but you also had a viral load. We had plenty of Epstein-Barr there, raging and hanging out chronically. Parvovirus was also common, and Abby and I actually joke a lot about developing a home for teachers because you all face the same stuff over and over again. If I'm taking teacher into care and there's going to be strep, there'll be parvo.

A lot of times there is going to be mycoplasma, which is a piece of what you had going on to. And we'll often see staff kind of stuff because kids have impetigo or other eczema, things like that. And you definitely had all of that, but most of it. Yeah. And so how how did you feel like starting the process and knowing that you'd been through other things?

Now you've got this lab work, and we're going to move into kind of a different sphere of function, maybe, or not. What was that like for you in the beginning? I think even just from the beginning, even the clarity call with you and the testing and just the amount of like, thought and care that went into everything. And, you know, we exchanged a lot of emails because I was very hesitant and very uncertain one, because I didn't believe I had anything else going on other than mono, but it just that felt different from the beginning, that I felt like I was finally working with somebody and the other people I worked with along the way.

You know, along the 15 years I've kind of been in this have been wonderful for what I needed at the time, but this felt very much like actual like the real deal. I trusted the process, and even getting back the testing results was just like, you know, this isn't just, you know, an HTMA, you know, which I had done in the past and thought was was going to be all my answers, which super valuable for me at the time.

But when there's deeper things, you know, it just felt more cohesive to me. I was very apprehensive. Like I said, I've done things in the past. I had always felt like I was kind of sensitive to supplement, so I was really worried about how I was going to react to things, how I was going to feel. I felt very validated by everything.

I remember my husband and my mom being like, well, that's some really scary stuff. And I was like, I just feel good to know, you know, what we can deal with now and we have a plan. My biggest, I think, concern was feeling worse, and I used to talk to Abby, but like I would start with, you know, two drops of something instead of the full, you know, five that I was supposed to do because I just I didn't want to go back to that place of feeling like I couldn't get out of bed or, you know, all I could do was work and then come home and.

And that was it. So with those fears, I know Abby tried to work into things slowly, and we talked about like, what's the best way to do this? So one, like you needed to go to work practically like you'd missed a lot of work and you'd already like you'd had the recurrent illness. And we were literally working against like, you need to be at work as we work through this process.

But we didn't jump into a huge protocol immediately. And did it feel like there was progress there in the beginning, I guess. What did it feel like to start more gently than maybe, you know, gung ho, jumping into all the things at one time? Yeah, I think a big piece to was like starting. So but also really getting back to that, making sure I was eating three meals a day, you know, a lot of, of my job, you know, as a social worker in a school district is going into homes and we're in the car a lot and we're on the road.

And sometimes it is, you know, stop at, you know, like a Chipotle and get them in when that's, that's becoming that was becoming my every day or skipping breakfast and just having coffee. So it was a lot of time to say like, okay, I'm dedicating this time. I'm, you know, there's the financial piece. I really have to work on those, hone in on those foundations.

So I think starting a little bit slower and working on those foundations for me were very important to get to get a routine and get a good baseline going. And, you know, I did have some movement, especially with the anxiety piece, with the just the supplements that we started early on before even doing the immunotherapy, because it took us a while to get there.

I think my testing came back in June and we didn't start immunotherapy until August. No, no end of September. Like that's how long it took me to kind of work through the other things and get to a place where I felt like I had kind of built myself back up nutritionally enough to where I could handle maybe taking a hit and not feeling great.

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Yeah, and I kind of love how you ended up doing it just from the side one. We designed care term to be an X amount of time. Most clients start with four months because it's a time block that you can. You can shore yourself up and commit again and renew yourself, you know, to say like, okay, for four months I'm going to get back to the basics.

I'm going to do these things that I've been doing but maybe haven't moved the needle. I'm going to invest in the process that way. But also, you know, you've invested more in testing probably than you had before at any one time. And you've got a lot of skin in the game. But it's so helpful to have that beginning phase when we're doing drainage and we're working on detox, and also we're working on nourishment and release.

And you, I think, really benefited from that quite a bit. Like in some ways we were like, we hope she gets started. We hope she's coming back. But you were like doing you were doing the work. And it really probably favored you too, that you buckle down and got back in there and it really is. This work is wonderful.

It is different, it's transformational, but it also gets you to a new foundation. And and how high that new foundation is has a lot to do with how well you care for yourself, eat, rest, etc. and you were really doing that base work. And I think in that time to you guys started with drainage and then just some histamine supports to give you like just some tools so that you weren't feeling junky.

The high piece can be supported. And then Abby also brought in carcinsion at that time. Would that be right? Yes. How did that feel? Just working through just the supplement parts. Anything that you noticed or remember.

So we started I had tried to kind of time it. So we started on our summer vacation, you know. So I had those nine weeks to, to kind of rest and, you know, play with things and see what side effects or symptoms might be. And even just after a few weeks of doing the drainage, which like I said, I, you know, stayed on one drop for a full week, then two drops for a full week, just to really and I think the highest I got up was 6 or 7.

I couldn't seem to like go beyond that. But even then I noticed just a little bit more clarity. I didn't have as much fogging as as I did. You know, the the anxiety had been become such a huge piece for me. I have always my whole life had had this anxiety, but it had definitely ramped up in the last couple of years, and I think that was part of the hesitation was starting the supplements was the anxiety and the after a few weeks of the carcinoma, and it was like something has shifted and I don't know what exactly it was.

And that's I'm kind of glad we kind of did things piece by piece because we were able to really say like, hey, I think this is really moving things. This is an important one to stick with and stay on. And like, I kind of was like, If I'm busy and I'm going to forget something, it's not going to be it's not going to be this one.

And by the time I went back to work, I hadn't even started the young, you know, therapy yet. But I was having more energy. I just felt better. I felt more rested. I definitely felt less, less anxiety, for sure. I was able there were things that I used to worry about and care about that just didn't faze me as much anymore.

You know, feeling like I kind of had to do had to do it all was kind of a big thing with me is I have to do everything, and I have to do everything perfectly. And I noticed with that, it kind of helped me release some of that, and that's been one of the best changes, I think. Yeah.

I loved watching your story from over here because you worked with Abby on our team, who's wonderfully gifted human, but she's a wonderful homeopath. She's also a pharmacist, and she obviously does this work, and she is really led and challenged our team a lot in using homeopathy in different ways. And so I want to speak a little bit to that for a second because carcinosin is a maya's matic homeopathic.

So we think of homeopathy as tools that can come in and support us with acute issues. We also use homeopathy in our immune rebuilding processes. But my isms are really there because they are addressing, like your energetic tendency towards being predisposed to particular group of illnesses. These are things that maybe we inherit or acquire in our lifetime. One of the most notable and easy to understand is carcinosin.

It really helps to address people who have cancer in their family line. We all probably immediately think of somebody where there's lots of cancer in it and uncle, mom and dad all the way back, but that also means for that person, they have a particular kind of way that their body trend, someone who can benefit from a carcinosin, myosin, tends to have favor of viral load.

They may have the history of mono or childhood illness or repeated immune compromise. They may have poor boundaries or just be a people pleaser. Helper. Nice, really doormat. Wonderful person to be around. But burn the candle at both ends and really struggle with that fatigue stuff. Lyme may be part of their presentation. They also can tend to struggle when they get mono.

They don't just get it, they get it all the way where there's more bed bound, exhausted, really, really struggling. So the person who the carcinoma in my ism is a match, really. They're often overachieving, very perfectionists that want to do everything well, not necessarily a bad thing, but that's kind of the disposition that it matches. And your case is so interesting because it is a practice.

We tend to practice clinical homeopathy. And people who are familiar with or learning about homeopathy often learn about classical homeopathy. And with classical, we tend to choose one remedy, and that tries to match the totality of a person's symptom as closely as possible. And instead of using that classical remedy to get movement on a various group of like if you had a bee sting, you would use APIs, or if you had pain, we would use arnica.

If we are able to find and select the appropriate classical remedy for that person, that's the most match. Like cures like the most like Jamis case, then you can really use that remedy to get movement on almost anything. And so that is always our goal. And care to listen and try to find a similarly is what they're called the remedy that most closely matches.

Oftentimes when there is recurrent illness like with you, carcinocion will either be there miasma for sure. And sometimes it can be used to minimum. But it's a great example because yeah, early on before you even got to the process, you were doing so much better, much better than most people do in their drainage phase. And that was totally credit, really did that carcinosin.

Similarly, the match that Abby brought into care. And that's not something that we can always do with everyone. We're not always, you know, we're not trained as classical homeopaths, but we have training in that. But it definitely was a remedy that matched your totality and got a lot of movement for you. And it's a remedy that we use regularly with our clients because we deal with so much immune dysfunction support and it can be wonderful there.

So really it was just fun for us to see because it really did make big movement for you. And it's interesting too, because it makes big movement on many levels. So it's not just the immune part, but it was also emotional. I mean, carcinosion has been so helpful to me for bringing like emotional calm and peace and boundaries.

Like it's very interesting to watch someone work through it because it does. As a boundary support, it also informs that immune boundary. It helps your immune system to get strong and know, like what's Jamie's body and what's viral and bacteria stuff that the immune system should be purging. And it's just a great it was a great, great remedy in general, but great to kind of watch.

So early improvements before the pathogen work that was happening, your body had already started shifting. Some things I saw in your notes, you know, you used to kind of feel like bad for five days of the week and you really shifted towards having like really good days solidly for like 3 or 4 days of the week. And I think you'd gone all summer.

Did you go all summer without illness at that point? I did, yeah, okay. And that was huge because your illness layers were like from the fall before really until we started getting going on things, when we started Immune therapy. Let's talk about that. How did that phase go for you? Because you were still I mean, you were feeling better.

Does was it fear still there around? Like, am I going to feel worse once I start this part of the process? Or where were you kind of emotionally at that point? For sure? I think, you know, when you I had felt as bad as I felt for really I mean, looking back, it was, you know, I was sick that year, but the, the 2 to 3 years before that, I had really been feeling quite awful.

So to finally be feeling good, to then like have to jump into something where there might be days where it kind of flares up those old symptoms. I definitely kind of push that back. I remember I was suppose to start in September and I was like, oh, well, you know, I have my first week of school. So, you know, let's, let's wait a week and then another and I, you know, was in a wedding and, you know, I just tried to, to time it so it would work, you know, smoothly in my life.

And you know, definitely the anxiety was still there. And I was like, all right, this is like, you got to do it. This is it, you know? And once I started, you know, the first, the first round, the first boxes, there were days that I felt great and there were days that I didn't feel so great, but it was not even half as bad as what I was feeling when I was sick.

So it was it ended up being very manageable for me, and I was pleasantly surprised. And it was kind of like, all right, well, we should have done this in in May, and I would have been halfway through it by now. But I think that that's the approach that kind of I needed to take to feel comfortable and to be able to function.

But yeah, it was overall, I mean, everything was a great experience. I can't say that there was ever a day where I was like, oh my God, I can't go to work because I feel so terrible, which is kind of what I was expecting. And that was not my experience at all. Yeah. So in that process, just for the listeners to know, as we work through immune therapy, there's often expression of the pathogen so that you may have days where your throat feels sore and you feel kind of run down and tired.

But for most people, those are glimmers of the immune system addressing the virus never like a full expression of the issue. And even during that time period, I was looking through notes. Your daughter got sick at one point and you got a really solid fever. And I think that was kind of like a celebratory point almost for you.

Do you remember that? Yeah. So initially I was sick in December, so now I was sick so little this year that I'm having to think. And I remember being excited because it was the first time that I got sick, and I felt the way my body used to feel when I got sick. So I had a sore throat.

I lost my voice, I, I wasn't feeling well, but I could go to work. I, you know, went out, you know, with a couple of friends and I, you know, I didn't have to cancel plans. And it was like, oh my God, I feel like I just have a cold. And I hadn't had a normal cold that didn't take me out for a week or two in so long.

Like that was that was exciting to me. And then I had a relatively good January, February, end of March. My daughter did get sick. She came home, she was positive for strep and flu B and that was definitely a bit of an anxiety spiral for me because I was still working through that, that strep piece of the immunotherapy and I was like, oh my God, is this going to mess anything up and how is my body going to respond?

And that was definitely that. Sickness was a little bit harder. Definitely hit hit harder. But I utilized a lot of like the homeopathy to get me through that, which was great. And there was there was a few instances where, I mean, the fever was just getting too high, and I was so uncomfortable that I had to take, you know, when I be proven, or a Tylenol.

But even getting that far and not having to, to use, you know, traditional like cold medicine or pain relievers, you know, that had been since I think the June before, like was a huge victory for me to look back and go, oh my God, I've made it eight months and I haven't needed these things. I've been able to utilize things that I've learned, you know, like red light and just different homeopathic options.

So just my illnesses this year were a totally different experience than prior. I love that it's such a like not silly, but like huge thing because like a practical everyday like to live knowing you're probably going to get sick once or twice this month and you have to modulate life and kid care all the time, and those sort of things is hard and discouraging.

But we also are really excited to hear that you got sick and had a fever, because having that fever means that your immune system was more regulated, and knowing that she was dealing with strep, so you were dealing with at least exposure and your body did more of an appropriate response, told us, okay, Jamie's immune systems like actually functioning better because a regulated immune system doesn't mean you never get sick.

That's actually not good either. It means that you're responding appropriately and recovering well. And we're finally seeing that you weren't having lingering stuff after, or taking forever to get better, or moving from one infection to the next, and that was like a big turning point. And really, that's one of the things to that. As you get further and further away from the process, that immune resilience stays in clients all the time are like, I've never gone this long without being sick or knocked down by every little thing.

And teachers, teachers, school workers, anyone who's around, lots of kids, daycare workers are my favorite because you all are more exposed than the rest of us to all kinds of, you know, every little bitty thing. And it's always really interesting to see how the immune resilience really shows up and builds over time. And you do get to kind of like maintain a foothold and saying, well and not dipping every time someone blows strep in your face, which is kind of what was happening there.

And I think it was cool too, because the strep didn't show up, but you didn't have your tonsils, but it didn't bring like a big GI response for you or the typical throat situation. And your anxiety was much different than two because that's a strappy piece. There was concern around sickness, but I didn't see as much like, you know, big worry anxiety.

Yeah, I think when I made it past, you know, the first few days and, you know, I knew I was sick, I got hit pretty hard and was down hard. I was like, all right, let's make sure we don't have strep. And, you know, Abby and I had talked about some things we could do. And I got, you know, some of the ship wheel back on board that I had been using.

And when I got through it without getting it like that was a huge victory. Like, you know, first I was discouraged that I had gotten sick as I got with the flu, but it was like, you know what? That's a normal response. My kid came home, the entire class is sick, but I didn't get the strap like, and I made it through.

And, you know, that was a huge that was a huge moment there, for sure. And then like you said, to now be, you know, a month and a half out from that and we haven't knock on wood, we had haven't done anything else yet, which, you know, like I said, working at a, at a primary school and then also having a kindergartner at home, there's, there's lots of I get it from both from both ends.

There's lots of fun things that come home. So it's definitely been a a big victory for that. Yeah. So less sickness, feeling more energy, not having to miss work. How about the food piece and the food portion of things because you were I mean you were going to taken care of your body. But I do feel like there was a lot of food, like it was a strong tool for you to manage some wellness, like where are you at this point with eating out or are you still dairy gluten free?

Like, what is your level of food management at this point that you feel like you need? I think when I started with Abby, I definitely had a lot of food fair going on just from different, you know, elimination diets and things that I had done throughout the years to try to fix issues or things with other practitioners that I, you know, oh, I can't have, you know, I was strict paleo for a while, I can't have beans.

And I never reintroduced those because at a point in my journey, when I did read introductions, they went horribly. So those foods that I had eliminated just have stayed eliminated for for years and years now, because my body, looking back, obviously wasn't in a place where, you know, I had accomplished what I, what I needed to. So that was a big piece.

Working with Abby, too, was like, I need to eat better and I need to eat more because I'm definitely under nourishing. So it made a lot of progress on that. I am back to incorporating beans in my diet, which is a huge you know, it's a huge thing for me just to be able to have more freedom, more options to eat.

You know, even, you know, broccoli, cauliflower, things like that. I could maybe have, you know, 2 or 3 little florets and any more than that I would have an issue. And yesterday I did like a sausage, potato, broccoli sheet pan. And it wasn't even a thought of how much broccoli am I going to eat, you know, how do I have to ration this?

So I feel, well, so big progress with that. I do think I still have a ways to go with that. More things I would like to reintroduce. I am so gluten and dairy free for me. The gluten I feel. I mean it's been on and off for 15 years. That's something I will probably stick with forever. I would love to try to get dairy and eggs back in at some point.

I don't know that I feel like I'm my body is at a place where it's ready for that. I think I definitely still have some more work to do. I think we tackled a huge piece, and now there's lots of things I can do to kind of refine things. But the the food fear is not as big of a factor as it used to be, for sure.

And even going to I think I had told Abby Thanksgiving. Thanksgiving was huge. That and you know, I went to a local gluten free bakery and I got a stuffing and I got gluten free rolls, things that I just would have been too afraid to eat and for the first time in years had, like, stuffing with my Thanksgiving dinner and gluten free apple pie and just things that would have totally sent me into like an anxiety spiral of am I not going to feel good?

And I feel like a lot of I feel like the Carson Olson was big in that for me to and kind of helping with a lot of my, my anxiety surrounding food too. So definitely big movement with what I am able to eat and not having as many digestive reactions. If you've been wanting to transform your health but don't know where to start.

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That the broccoli piece just to kind of expand because some people may hear and be like, but what's the problem with the broccoli? Well, when you've got, you know, bacterial overgrowth going on, guys, high fiber foods can be really hard to digest and they can be something that promotes a lot like bloating and therefore upset. And depending on how much bacterial overgrowth your body is dealing with, it can really be something that bothers you quite quickly.

There's also a slow for component that can affect how the liver is able to like process or push processing of things. So that's definitely a piece that maybe, like most people don't realize, but those high fiber veggies, high sulfur veggies can be something that triggers the eggs part you mentioned is interesting too. And I agree definitely on gluten there are same for me.

That's not something I have been willing yet to reintroduce or give a try. I do have genetic pieces like I have the gene HLA genes that are there, and I don't think we figured that out for you yet, but there are parts where some portions may stay out, but eggs are one of those things that cross react a lot with that seem bar, and they're high in arginine.

And so they can be a trigger for EBV progression. And we always say to like if someone there's other reasons to sometimes eggs will be reactive for their own immune reasons. We work with a lot of children and have for example, and also within mold if that's an issue that can be crossed reacting. But as you retain that immune resilience over time, eggs will be an easier introduction because the Epstein-Barr portion that's been raging is now going to be in control.

And there's less opportunity for that cross-reactivity or for the high arginine foods to push that EB progression. It's all nuanced and all layered and all things, you know, are definitely intertwined, but those sort of things are part of the long game. When we get through that immune therapy process, we typically want clients to like, hang and enjoy your new freedom and enjoy feeling well and know that your immune system has been trained.

And now it's walking out those plans. And the further and further you get away from the progress, the more strong your immune system is, the more resilient it will remain, and the more likely you are to not have really issue when you bring things back in. So that's one of those things that sometimes people it's an action item, right?

Because in the beginning we're like, I can't do this, this or this food, and I want them all back. We want you to get them all back to and I mean, you clients at large, and some of it is a quick thing where you're like, beans are super high fiber. For you to be able to tolerate those is like, you know, great progress in that same dynamic.

And also things that interact with some of the pathogen load. We have to kind of leave for a little later when we're comfortable. And I always think to it's great to enjoy the new bodily freedom that we found in this because after being like buckled down in a lot, there are belief systems and worries that we can release.

But it takes time to do that. And IT food is so integrated into so many parts of our life. Those earliest in the process moments of getting to have an apple pie and stuffing and enjoy holidays and not have to modify every gosh hahn thing because of our bodies is like so enjoyable to enjoy, and it's nice to be able to stay and hang there with that, and then know that there's more hope for moving other foods back in.

But looking back now and kind of walking through this discussion today, what do you feel like feels the most different about being in your body, like on this side of things? I think for me it's the like the, the lift of like the fog and the clarity that I feel like I have now, I feel much more myself than I think I have felt in a very long time.

And, you know, I've had, you know, my mom, my husband. People comment that, like you, you seem like yourself again. You don't seem, you know, you seem like you're there. And there were times, you know, I would wake up and I just would be like, I like, I'm not with it. I don't know what is going on, but I am not with it.

And my brain just had this, this lag. So even beyond just having the energy like something as simple as just, you know, working, coming home, making dinner and then still having the energy to like, run up to target to get, you know, just whatever. I need to write something for my daughter for school or things that used to be just such a huge, monumental like to go to the grocery store for for a year and a half, all I could do was grocery pickup.

And I am someone who I love to go to Whole Foods and wander around the grocery store and just kind of see what there is. And that was something. If I did that, my body was wiped out for the rest of the weekend. So just to have those little things that I feel like we kind of take for granted before we're sick or experienced something like this, just those normal everyday, the energy to like, live a full, functional life and feel like I can have a conversation and that I am present, I think is is the biggest.

Aside from that feeling as sick as I felt, that is the biggest, the biggest thing. What do you wish more people understood about chronic illness? Because you had a really long season of like literally just being sick over and over and over again with things. And, and it's hard when you don't experience that or you don't really, like, know that firsthand.

But what do you wish others like understood about that and just immune dysfunction in general? That and that was kind of a running joke at work is every time I get sick, I'd be like, oh, Jamie's going on vacation again. And it's just it's it's not it's not a fun time. It's definitely I can understand how when people have a chronic, some chronic issues that you can't see or you look like you're functioning like a regular person or, oh, everybody gets tired that it's it's different.

It is a different kind of tired is a different type of, you know, it's not a cold. It's not something that you can rebound from. And I think just people understanding that it's not.

It's not anxiety. It's not laziness. It is just this like two year core, you know, tiredness that you can't shake, that in realizing how much people struggle with having to say no to plans or disappointing somebody because you can't show up to a party or you have to cancel dinner or, you know that people really do need to rest and take care of themselves to, to overcome that.

Yeah. Yeah. I think it's one of the biggest things that I dealt with was, was just people not taking it seriously. And when you've been sick so chronically, you just kind of become the person that that never feels good. Like, oh, that's Jamie, that's typical. She never feels good or she always cancels or, you know, and that's something after all of this, going through all this to work through, like I believe therapy has been a huge a huge piece too, because it's one thing to get these results and feel validated, and then it's another thing to work through feeling well again and trusting your body and knowing how far you can push things and what you can say yes to and when you need to take a step back and take care of yourself and find that new balance in not identifying in that that chronic, you know, illness anymore. Yeah, I always compare it to it's like getting a new car, like you had your old car and you knew how to roll up the window just right, and you knew how to, like, keep it from that one floor mat smelling weird and where you kept all your lipstick and how you kept it from, you know, going off the road when and stuff.

And then you get a new car and you're like, okay, so I can drive this one just fine when it rains, like the tires are going to not slide on the road and like the window just goes up and down. But then like, my purse doesn't fit in here the same way the other one did. Okay. You're learning and adapting in a new body, but also like it generally does the same thing, but it does it way better with way less effort, with way more ease and more comfort in that part.

You know, sometimes we get through this process with clients and they're like, okay, thank you so much. I feel great, I'm done. But the emotional part of it is really big, especially when you've been the person who's had to adapt or be afraid or you've even had good like food modification. Food is such a good tool, but it is so easy for us to even move full blown to Orthodoxy or somewhere in the middle as we learn for it to be a helpful tool.

And because we eat three plus times a day, that's a hard thing for people to work through in that emotional piece. And the mental work that really just truly is diligence inside of ourselves to question and say, like, am I? I'm really okay with the broccoli. Like, I should probably try and do six pieces of broccoli and just like, give it a go and maybe I should just go to dinner and just see if I can go out tonight with my friends and see how tired I am later.

And like, just challenging yourself, trying to ride out that new body part is really important and reframing that, like, I'm in a new place, I'm safe, like I am healthy. It's definitely hard to believe a lot of times after you've struggled with illness for so long and sometimes hard to challenge some of those social. Not that I do anything wrong, they were just used to functioning with us in certain ways when our bodies were unwell.

But to change that, even in marriages, we've had spouses that, like both hop on the call and they're like, I just realizing, like how she can like do stuff now and she couldn't do things before. And then I'm also realizing when I was expecting her to do stuff, she was actually like bone tired, not just not wanting to.

And it's interesting and sad and free. How much illness can affect and touch all parts of our life. And if you're not in a body experiencing that, it's really weird to interact with and not know. So I think too about how many things you were doing well, and I wonder what you would say to somebody who's doing all the right things but still struggling at this point.

Now that you've gone through this process and live many years of doing all the right things and then having a transformation, well, I think now after going through this process, just saying to to somebody, I mean, I've said to many people who've been struggling like, hey, I know that this is a big time commitment. It's a financial commitment, but it's if you're doing all of these things like there's more.

And I think that some people still have that very traditional view of medicine. You know, and especially me, with the testing that I did with you guys from the line, you know, I had a few comments like, well, was that from a real doctor? Are you sure that's real? You know, in kind of dealing with that, that like, hey, if you're doing all the right things, you're, you're not getting anywhere with this traditional care system to take the leap and to question, you know, why?

Why am I eating healthy and exercising? And I'm so exhausted and nothing is moving the needle that maybe there is something deeper going on, because I feel like that's the biggest thing that I've learned through all of this, is to question and to see what is what is could be at the root of it, because it's not. I think we get so comfortable just being sick all the time, or everybody feels this way, or everybody's tired or everybody is over functioning and overwhelmed.

And that's just how you have to adapt and you have to be. So to kind of question that and look at what how can you function differently and what supports do you need? I think that traditional medical system part is important because when you have chronic stuff and you didn't carry a lot of diagnoses when you came in care that you you easily could have been in that boat just with history.

But people come in with like several autoimmune disease distracted by rheumatologists has said this or there's no answer for you here. There's no answer at dermatology, there's no cardiology, there's none of all these places. And it is really hard to think that like, oh, someone else who's not an MD or specialist could have something to add to this equation.

And I like to compare it to the grocery store. Like I never walk into my Kroger expecting them to have the random wonderful daikon radish that I'm going to turn into part of our like, sushi night. And I'm definitely not showing up there looking for the organic juice sparkling water because they're not going to have it. I'll be needing to go to Whole Foods for that, just like if I want the cheap.

I'm definitely going to the little grocery store in my little town and I'm going to get them from there. Like, not every place is meant to serve everything, and a big part of what we do here at hey hey, it's like we do address a lot of issues, but all of those issues go back to the immune system and that functional immunology piece that informs how allergies work, how skin stuff works, how digestive recurrent, how recurrent mental health, how infectious stuff works.

It all goes back to the same thread, and it's just a different way of thinking of it. And really, it is newer science, and it often takes 15 to 20 years for newer science to hit traditional big giant systems with standard of care and lots of outlines. And so I think it takes a lot of bravery. It took a lot of bravery for me.

I didn't come from a family that was like, we're conventional kind of people to challenge and think outside the box, but my goodness, it's totally what saved my life. And I saw functional doctors that were wonderful and helpful in some gave me pieces, and I saw a nutritionist that gave me pieces. But this piece for me and for you was the thread that really pulled everything together and got us, well, on that chronic illness, note the question I always ask because it is in some ways a unique experience.

And then going through this process is unique. And you kind of talked about it, even people questioning and, you know, having things to say, what is one way that you were loved? Well, during this process, either as you had chronic illness or as you were healing, how were you supported well by others in that process? The the biggest thing that comes to mind is, I mean, I had so many friends and family that were wonderful, but my mom was just such a huge support in never making me feel guilty for being too tired to function and kind of really picking up the slack for me where it was seamless for my for my daughter.

Of course, my husband was wonderful, but he works. And there's, you know, I am the the drive to school, the pick up from school, the, you know, all of those things make dinner and, you know, for her to take over, you know, taking taking my daughter to school and making it fun for her and playing with her after school so I could, you know, get myself together, you know, take a minute.

Or taking her for dinner nights that I was just to, you know, I was too tired and my husband was working late. The support and knowing that my child was taken care of and wasn't missing a beat, that was huge. That was huge for me. And then also just a couple of friends who really, just kind of trusted the process with me and didn't make me feel silly or stupid for trying something different where, you know, I had conversations with people where, you know, that wasn't that wasn't the reaction.

I mean, people, you know, my dad was definitely very skeptical, for sure. And that was tough to just say, you know what I mean? What do I have to lose? What do I have to lose? Doing it this way because it's not working the other way for me. And I can't function like this anymore. Right? I want to have have a shot at, you know, feeling better, and I.

And I think this is it. And I believe in it. And if I'm wrong, then I'm wrong and, you know, that's it. But definitely the support, the support of my mom for, you know, making meals and picking up groceries for me. And then my husband was really great to never making me feel guilty for not being able to do something or having to sit something out or leave early, or him having to, you know, me saying like, hey, I know I try to do everything myself, but like this, I need you to take this over now.

And him not making me feel bad for that and being able to go to bed right at 8 p.m. right after, you know, my daughter did and, you know, doing bedtime and bedtime and those kinds of things. So definitely this supports for sure of just, you know, those daily tasks. That's really good. And I think to even listening to that, like probably there was some growth for you in there and passing things off and saying, can you handle this?

I can't handle this part of the season because I'm handling a new part of my health or moving forward and just thinking about boundaries and carcinogen and immune systems. That's a good and helpful growth. Part of the process to that you wouldn't think of is like, you do have to learn how to redraw new boundaries, give yourself space, care for yourself, and also challenge yourself at the same time to continue growing.

And I agree, the outside voices are hard. But I also think too, like a lot of times they'll say, well, how is what you're doing working for you? Because I'm not talking to, well, people. I'm clarity calls. It's always people who are still struggling with a big part. And it's hard. I feel for that because so many have been to so many places and gotten little bits of growth.

And it's hard to believe that, like, this thing could actually be more helpful to me in, like, many layered ways than before. But it's there. But the support piece is huge because it is a process and it is work, but it is some of the best work I think you can do if you are struggling with recurrent illness insurance.

So I really appreciate you sharing and opening up about all the parts. I've always felt like seeing your own story in someone else's story is the biggest tool for change, because it it basically activates hope and gives people a way to see a way out. And I just appreciate you being open and telling us all the things and sharing all the parts.

And I also can't wait to continue to see when you eat eggs and as you keep regressing side. Yeah, yeah. Thank you for letting me share my story. It's been a really great experience, and there was a lot of time that I spent looking at your Instagram and listening to your podcast. And, you know, it truthfully had been a couple of years of thinking, you know, should I take this leap?

And, you know, I think intuitively, I kind of had a feeling for quite a while. So it's been a really great, life changing experience for me, for sure. I'm glad to hear that. I'm glad you took the leap. I always love to hear to how long people have been contemplating or watching or thinking, because it's just interesting to me to see how long we, you know, think about and what makes us move to do the do the change or trust the new process, which is such a huge thing.

So really glad that you you took the leap and that you got to be where you are now at this point, and hopefully this season is going to be behind you and open up new doors for you. So thanks for your time, Jamie. Thank you. Thanks for listening. I hope you're leaving. Encouraged, curious and hopeful. If you learned something, I'd love for you to share this episode with a friend.

Hey, we are all healing together. You can learn more about my practice, our team, and what it's like to work with us at Hey Hey MAE. I teach lots on Instagram and answer questions there. Each Monday my Instagram handle is at hey Hey Elizabeth Mae. You can watch these podcast episodes and more on our YouTube channel. Hey hey Mae, learn about and enjoy our homeopathic line and take our homeopathic short course at hey Hey homeopathic.Com happy healing.